CVIndependent

Mon11232020

Last updateMon, 24 Aug 2020 12pm

Dan Savage

I’ve always been excited by BDSM, but I’ve only minimally explored this side of myself until very recently. I’m a straight woman, and it was difficult to find men who wanted more monogamish relationships on the traditional apps—and a challenge to be honest with men about what I am looking for where kink is concerned. I’d often get through a month or so of seeing someone before finding out they wanted a completely monogamous relationship and that they were very vanilla in the bedroom to boot. I was tired of wasting my time and needed to find a partner who wanted to enjoy a kinky relationship, so I moved from traditional dating apps like Bumble and Hinge to apps like #Open, Fetlife and KinkD.

While I’ve had a few amazing conversations and meet-ups, they’ve primarily been with men in open relationships, couples or guys only looking to hookup. And it seems most people on kinky apps want to only talk about sex. While I do feel drawn to this lifestyle, I am also looking for a partner. I want someone to spend my life with who can also enjoy the kink community with me. How can I find a guy that wants a life partner and a fun and kinky sex life?

One more question: I’m currently enjoying casual sex with a male partner who only buys magnum-size condoms, but who does not need magnum-size condoms. It’s like fucking a half-empty grocery store bag. How do I tell him regular condoms would be soooooo much better without making him feel bad?

Seeks Partner And Needs Kink

Whether you’re on kinky dating apps or mainstream dating apps or both, SPANK, you’re gonna have a lot of interactions with a lot of guys who aren’t right for you before you find the guy (or guys) who are right for you. And since there are plenty of kinky people on mainstream dating apps—you were one of them—you should be on both.

Of the happily partnered kinky people I know, SPANK, half met their partners in “traditional” spaces (bars, workplaces, mainstream dating apps) while the other half met their partners in kinky spaces (munches, fetish parties, kinky dating apps). And while no one should be meeting anyone in a bar or at parties right now—there’s a pandemic on—the more places you advertise online, the likelier you are to line up a compatible partner for when this is all over.

And you shouldn’t be surprised—or put off—when someone you meet on KinkD wants to talk about their kinks. When you meet someone via a dating app that brings people together around a shared interest, it’s only natural that your initial conversations revolve around that shared interest. If you were posting ads on Farmers Only or Christian Cafe, your first chats would very likely revolve around, I don’t know, the price of corn or the exact moment you sold your soul to Donald Trump.

Whichever kind of app you meet a guy on, you’re going to need to do the same two things—the same work, the same vetting, the same screw diligence—just in a different order. When you meet a guy on Bumble, SPANK, you establish baseline emotional compatibility first, and then eventually you have a conversation about sex. With guys you meet on KinkD, you establish baseline sexual compatibility first—by talking about your mutual sexual interests—and eventually get around to determining whether you’re emotionally compatible.

And, again, since you could meet someone with whom you are emotionally and sexually compatible on either kind of dating site—mainstream or kinky—you should keep your ads up on both.

As for the other question: Loose condoms come off, and loose condoms leak, SPANK, so a guy who uses XXL condoms on a medium dick puts you at greater risk of contracting an STI or having an unplanned pregnancy. And for what? To impress the checkout clerk at CVS? Don’t worry about making him feel bad. Tell him he gets condoms that fit, or he finds someone else to fuck.


I’d lived with my girlfriend for more than a year, until about a month ago, when she moved to the East Coast, so now we’re in a long-distance relationship. I supported her move, because she’s following her dream career, and we decided to stay together since communication nowadays is pretty easy. But every time I try to text or call, she responds that she’s too busy or exhausted. I could understand if this was once in a while, but it’s literally all the time. This has put a strain on our communication.

I became irrational with these red flags, and I looked up her address, and a guy’s name popped up, including his phone number. Then I did perhaps the most irrational thing ever and looked on our phone bill and his number is everywhere on her section of the bill. I asked her who this dude is, and she stated that he’s her landlord and employer. That’s not a red flag, but him calling at 1 a.m. when I was working nightshifts before she moved is. I confronted her, and she became defensive and turned everything back on me. She called me crazy and hurled more than one “fuck you” at me and threatened to call the cops on me. I’ve admitted to my wrongdoing in violating her privacy, and I’ve repeatedly asked her to talk about it, but it always turns into a fight. We’ve been together two years, and I’ve never met any of her friends or her 20-year-old son. What do you think?

I’m Getting Nothing Outta Relationship Except Drama

I think there’s only so much time you should waste on a person who doesn’t have time for you—to say nothing of a person who isn’t particularly kind to you and, after two years, hasn’t integrated you into her life in a meaningful way.

I also think you need to ask yourself what’s more likely, IGNORED: Your girlfriend—who can’t take your calls now but could take that guy’s in the middle of the night when you two were living together—is living with and working with a guy she knew before moving away, or that your girlfriend is living with and working with and fucking with a guy she moved across the country to be with? I think the latter is far more likely. But even if she’s not fucking him—even if she isn’t holding on to you as a backup or doesn’t want to end things because you pay her phone bill—she doesn’t make time for you, and it doesn’t sound like she’s particularly kind to when she can spare you a moment.

I don’t know why she hasn’t done the right thing and ended it, IGNORED, but that doesn’t mean you can’t do the right thing for yourself and end it.


I expect many of your astute readers will have written to you about this, but here goes anyway: You described the wannafuckmath when arranging a foursome as far more complicated than the wannafuckmath when arranging a threesome. But the wannafuckmath isn't actually very complicated. For any n-some, the wannafuck number = n • (n-1). So for the humble twosome, it's 2 • 1. Two! Just what you'd expect. For a threesome, it's 6. For a foursome, it's 12. So a foursome is wannafuckmathematically six times more complicated than a twosome, but only twice as complicated as a threesome. Even the rarely seen hundredsome only has a wannafuck number of 9,900: large, perhaps unachievable, but not infinite.

Math Is Sexy Today and Yesterday

I was once in a room where at least 100 people were having sex—in Berlin, naturally—so I have seen the elusive hundredsome with my own eyes. Or the hundred-and-then-some, I should say. (And to be clear: I was a witness, not a participant.) But unlike a threesome or a foursome, a hundredsome isn’t an arranged-in-advance/by-invitation-only affair. It’s more of a book-a-large-enough-space-and-advertise-it-extensively-and-they-will-come affair. So, paradoxically, hosting a by-invitation-only threesome or foursome—or even a by-invitation-only tensome—where you establish in advance that everyone is attracted to each other may be more difficult to pull off than hosting a Berlin hundredsome.

On this week’s Lovecast, Ask a Sub’s Lina Dune, and the anxious return of “Dr. Bummer”; www.savagelovecast.com.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.; @FakeDanSavage on Twitter.

Why are threesomes much more accepted in the popular imagination than foursomes? I was just googling “finding foursomes,” and the first result is an article about threesomes that takes for granted that people are looking for MFF groups. That is a form of heteronormativity, right?

I am not judging threesomes, of course, but asking why foursomes are perceived as more taboo. I would be interested in knowing more about what you think about this, or if you have any resource to recommend, as I am approaching this now with my partner for the first time.

By the way, I love what you do with your work.

Willing To Foursome

I don’t think the popular imagination has conspired against foursomes or that foursomes are really that much more taboo than threesomes, WTF. Rather, I think threesomes are easier to arrange than foursomes, and the popular imagination reflects that fact.

Think about it: Finding two people who wanna fuck each other is hard. Finding three people who all wanna fuck each other—Person A wants to fuck Person B and Person C, Person B wants to fuck Person A and Person C, Person C wants to fuck Person A and Person B—is harder still. Adding a Person D to the mix makes the wannafuckmath infinitely more complicated. Which is not to say everybody fucks everybody during a threesome, of course, but at the very least, everyone involved has to at least be OK with fucking in very close proximity to everyone else involved.

While complicated to arrange and often emotionally tricky, WTF, threesomes aren’t really that taboo. According to research into sexual fantasies done by Dr. Justin Lehmiller, it’s the single most-common sexual fantasy. More than 90 percent of men and nearly 90 percent of women fantasize about having a threesome, according to Dr. Lehmiller’s research; according to other research, roughly one in five people has actually participated in at least one threesome. (Full discloser/cumblebrag: I lost my virginity in a MMF threesome.)

Threesomes are heteronormative by design, e.g., they were arranged to fulfill a straight man’s standard-issue MFF fantasy, but judging from my mail, just as many MFF threesomes are arranged to fulfill the same-sex desires of often-but-not-always-newly-out bisexual women who already have husbands or boyfriends—which less heteronormative and more bisupportive/biexplorative. (My mail isn’t scientific evidence, I realize, but it’s what I’ve got.) And for the record, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a heteronormative threesome. Straight guys should be allowed to have and realize their sexual fantasies without being shamed, just like everyone else, so long as they’re realizing them with consenting adult partners. And while straight guys have historically done most of the judging and shaming of non-straight/non-guys over the entire course of human history, the corrective isn’t to heap shame on straight guys with off-the-rack sexual fantasies. Instead, it’s to demand that no one should be shamed for their sexual fantasies, and we should demonstrate our commitment to that principle by not shaming anyone—not even straight guys—who seek to realize their sexual fantasies with other consenting adults.

And finally, WTF, there is one place where foursomes are far less taboo and could even described as standard: the organized, mostly straight and often supremely heteronormative swingers’ scene. If you and your partner are of the opposite sex and are interested in or willing to settle for strictly heterosexual sex where men are concerned, you might find more luck arranging foursomes at swingers’ parties—once those parties are possible again—than on dating apps.


Where do I go from here? My parents voted for Trump in 2016 and again in 2020. I’m a lesbian. My partner and I have been together for nearly 20 years. My parents have always been supportive; we have a great relationship. But I can’t reconcile their vote for this piece of trash. They’re not even pro-life or religious. I genuinely don’t understand.

What The Fuck Do I Do Now?

My dad voted for George W. Bush in 2004. Bush’s campaign was pushing anti-gay-marriage ballot initiatives across the country in the hopes that bigots would turn out in huge numbers and put his incompetent ass back in the White House. The fact that the then-president of the United States—the worst one we thought we’d see in our lifetimes—was waging a demagogic campaign against one of his own children didn’t stop my dad from voting for him. For a second time.

I didn’t stop talking to my father.

While I believe we have to confront family members about their bigotries, and that there have to be social consequences when people vote for racism and fascism and oligarchy and corruption and disease and death, WTFDIDN, I don’t think cutting off contact with non-toxic/non-QAnon parents or family members is the answer. Where there’s evidence of cognitive dissonance—and a family member voting for someone seeking to harm people they love is certainly evidence of cognitive dissonance—there’s also an opportunity.

I would urge you to express your displeasure to your parents and demand better from them—and to keep bringing it up. While text messages from strangers and robocalls often fail to move people, appeals to conscience—sometimes angry ones—from family members often work. I’ve heard from a lot of people over the last few months whose parents voted for Trump in 2016 but voted for Biden this year. I wish I could say my dad was one of them. Maybe next time.

There are elections coming up in 2022, and there’s a high likelihood we will see a Trump on the ballot in 2024. (There are also two special elections in Georgia in January that will determine who controls the U.S. Senate!) The parents who disappointed you and endangered our Democracy in this election are likelier to come around before the next election if you demand answers from them now.


I’d like to think I am pretty open and understanding to a lot of things. I met a hot guy at my job who says he has a fetish for ass. In a sexting session, I learned he was not only obsessed with my ass, but me playing with his, too. He later revealed there was only one other woman with whom he felt comfortable sharing his gay fantasies. Everything involved ass play, sucking dildos or DP. (Eyebrow raised.) I asked him if he was curious about gay sex, and he said no. In no way does he want a man, he said, and everything he wanted done to him, he wanted a woman to do.

We’ve had several sexting sessions, and it always shifts to me dominating him or a gay-sex fantasy. I really want to be open, but he is making this very hard.

Questioning Unusual Exceptionally Erotic Relationship

This would be easier if you were clear—clear with yourself—about what you want and what’s possible. If you want a long-term relationship that doesn’t revolve around ass play, and you couldn’t possibly enjoy a casual sexual adventure with a hot guy who isn’t a good potential long-term partner … then you should stop sexting with him. But if you’re up for a crazy, ass-centered sexual adventure with a hot guy that won’t lead to anything serious or long-term … then get yourself a strap-on dildo, and order this not-gay guy to get on his not-gay knees and suck your not-gay dick.

I suspect you feel tense after sexting with this guy, because you’re left thinking, “My God, what am I signing up for here?” with the animating assumption being that “going there” means getting stuck there. But if you told yourself you were only signing up for a crazy night or a crazy weekend instead with this ass-obsessed dude, and not a lifetime with him, you would most likely feel a lot less nervous about this connection.

In other words, QUEER, being open to playing with this guy doesn’t mean you have to be open to dating him, much less marrying him. But, again, if having a sexual adventure with someone who isn’t a potential long-term partner isn’t something you could see yourself doing and enjoying, QUEER, stop responding to this guy’s sext messages.

On the Lovecast, Dan consults a rabbi; www.savagelovecast.com.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.; @FakeDanSavage on Twitter.

I’m a nearly-80 straight male, with an undiminished libido. I have no problem with it, just a persistent curiosity—like, why now? And why so various? And is it common among us old geezers? Male and female? I’m more sex-obsessed than ever before, including adolescence. Until my 60s, tits were my sexual focus, and other body parts were strictly subsidiary, whether I was looking, fantasizing, masturbating or fucking. Now butts, bellies, assholes, cunts, legs, arms and shoulders are equal turn-ons.

Well, I do have one problem: Women aren’t interested in me “that way” anymore. The secret smiles in public are no longer complimentary or inviting or challenging. They’re just fond, polite smiles for a nice-looking old man.

The availability of porn plays a big part in my obsessions. It primes the pump visually, mentally and physically, by showing more body parts and what can be done with them. The lack of a steady sex partner may also explain my obsession—but I was sometimes without a sex partner when I was younger, and I wasn’t similarly obsessed. So is this the usual pattern? Does being relieved of the stress and distractions of work free all retired men—and women—to be perpetually horny, or what?

Geezer Energy Rocks Id And Titillates Retired Isolated Chap

“I don’t have statistics for GERIATRIC, but I can tell him that wherever his libido falls on the ‘none’ to ‘yowza’ scale, he’s normal,” said Joan Price, author of Naked at Our Age: Talking Out Loud about Senior Sex. “While it’s true that most seniors see their libidos decrease or at least mellow, I hear from people like GERIATRIC all the time—older folks who feel exuberantly sexy.”

What explains the sudden surge in libido experienced by some seniors?

“There’s a freedom to sex in our older years,” said Price. “We may still get those ‘at your age’ restrictive, shaming messages, but we’re happiest and most fulfilled when we ignore them. So I would advise GERIATRIC to enjoy his charged libido and not to worry about whether it’s a ‘usual pattern.’ Who cares? It’s your pattern. You do you!”

And Price says there are women who’d be down to do you, too.

“As he sees it, his problem is that the women he desires ‘aren’t interested,’” said Price. “As I see it, his problem is that he’s not actively seeking out women who are.”

Your days of picking up women on the street may be behind you, GERIATRIC, but they’re supposed to be behind us all. Instead of making women feel unsafe when they’re out in public by assuming a smile is a signal of interest, Price suggests looking for connections online.

“GERIATRIC needs to polish his seduction skills and get on the dating sites,” said Price. “He needs to show a potential bedmate what he has to offer—and I don’t mean a dick pic. He needs to woo a woman with his words—at least to begin with—and, most importantly, he needs to show interest in who she is as a full person, not just the body parts that turn him on.”

But don’t get on dating sites if your bullshit detectors were removed with your gallbladder. If someone seems too good to be true—if someone seems too young and too hot to be interested in a guy your age—they’re almost certainly a scammer. And if a flirtatious exchange becomes a sob story that becomes a money beg, hit the block button. I’m a firm believer in intergenerational romance, GERIATRIC, but for safety’s sake, you should stay in your generational lane. That means getting on OurTime and/or SilverSingles instead of Tinder and/or Plenty of Fish. For while there might be a small handful of hot 20-something gerontophiles in your area, the odds that you’ll find one are too slim to bother trying. And you’ll have better luck going after women closer to your own age.

“Libidinous older women are out there, I can assure him,” said Price. But you’ll have to do the work, GERIATRIC, “since most will want to feel safe and appreciated as well as desired before they invite him into their beds.”

Finally, GERIATRIC, seeing as the horny old man has been a cliché for as long as men have existed, I don’t think you should blame online porn for your predicament. Some people’s libidos ramp up as they age, like Price said, and it sounds like you’re one of those people. Maybe instead of seeing porn as the cause of all your problems, GERIATRIC, you could see porn as your friend. Solo sex can be good sex, and porn is there to help you enjoy it.

Follow Joan Price on Twitter @Joan Price. You can find Price’s books and the educational film she made about senior sex with porn star and sex educator Jessica Drake at her website: www.joanprice.com.


Pre-COVID, I was in the whirlpool at a hotel spa when an elderly gentleman asked if I wanted a foot massage. There’s only one reason a guy offers another guy a foot massage: He was gay and into feet. I’m straight and not into feet, but I said, “You can rub my feet—but just my feet, no higher.” My wife insists this means I had a “gay encounter.” I say it was gay for the other guy but not for me. What say you?

Fighting Over Our Terms

Not all encounters with gays count as “gay encounters,” FOOT, but seeing as this was clearly an erotic experience for the elderly guy, and you knew it—you weren’t being secretly perved on—I’m going to side with your wife. Even if you didn’t get off on it, even if you were just enjoying the massage, you knew the other guy was getting off on it.


I’m a 45-year-old straight woman in a monogamous relationship with a 48-year-old straight man. One thing that keeps playing over and over in my mind is something he said to me three months into our relationship.

He spent the night for the first time at my place. We were laying in my bed the next morning, just talking and enjoying each other’s company, when his phone beeped. He read a text and then said, “That was my friend Susan. I can’t wait for you to meet her. I think you’re really gonna like her—oh, and she sucked my dick 25 years ago at a rest stop in New Jersey.” It turns out “Susan” is his best friend. I had not met her yet, and this was the first thing I knew about her. When I asked why he told me this, his response was that he was half-asleep. He wasn’t. When I pressed further, he told me it was something that happened a long time ago and that they laugh about it now—but then told me it was none of my business!

I agree! It’s none of my business! So why did he feel the need to tell me? Then he told me Susan can never know I know, because she would feel humiliated. But that’s exactly how I feel! Are Susan’s feelings more of a priority to him than mine?

I’ve hung out with him and Susan three times. I have asked if we can get together again, as a group, so I would feel less insecure about the times they get together without me, but there’s always some excuse for why it’s not possible. It’s been a long time since I’ve been in a relationship, and I’ve invested a year in this man. He is a decent guy otherwise, Dan, but this nags at me.

Boyfriend’s Long-Ago Blowjob

Your boyfriend was either playing head games—meaning he was fucking with you on purpose—or he lacked the emotional intelligence and/or impulse control to realize why sharing something like that, at a moment like that, was a bad idea.

If he’s the kind of guy who enjoys tormenting the women he dates, BLAB, he would’ve done similar or worse things by now. (And a woman he dated a quarter-century ago probably wouldn’t be on speaking terms with him, much less one of his closest friends.) Assuming he hasn’t done similar or worse—I’m guessing you would’ve included other examples in your letter if he had—perhaps he deserves the benefit of the doubt here: He said something stupid and thoughtless; he couldn’t come up with a good explanation for why he said it; and he doesn’t like to be reminded of it.

As for Susan … he’s known her for 25 years. If he wanted to be with her, he’d be with her. And he may be reluctant to get together as a group because he worries—perhaps not without cause—that you might bring it up.

If he’s given you no other reason to suspect he might be cheating on you, cram this ancient blowjob down the memory hole.

On the Savage Lovecast, Dan chats with Adam Sass, author of Surrender Your Sons, an escape-from-conversion-camp thriller: www.savagelovecast.com.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.; @FakeDanSavage on Twitter.

I’ve been in a relationship with a wonderful guy for the past year. The only problem is that he works with a girl he used to fuck. It wasn’t just sex—they would go on dates and even went on vacation together. He kept this little “detail” to himself for six full months before giving himself away by mistake. He then apologized, said he hadn’t told me so that I wouldn’t worry for no reason, and claimed that he no longer has any feelings for her whatsoever.

Disclaimer: I’m an extremely jealous person with huge trust issues, so knowing he kept all of this from me is devastating. I no longer trust him. Just thinking that he’s seeing—on a daily basis—a woman he used to sleep with is driving me nuts! I repeatedly asked him to let me meet her in person, at the very least, but it didn’t happen. So one night, after giving him a heads-up, I showed up at their workplace. He had said it would be OK for me to stop by sometime, but once I got there, he freaked out. He accused me of not trusting him!

My question: Am I being crazy and overreacting—I’ll admit I’ve been agonizing nonstop about this—or is he acting like an asshole with something to hide? I’ve been struggling to curb my anxiety about this, and I’ve even had a few panic attacks he’s not aware of. Him changing jobs is out of the question.

I’m Terrified About Losing It And Nuking Everything

How long were you dating this guy before you outed yourself as an extremely jealous person (EJP)?

I’m guessing at least a few weeks, ITALIANE, if not a few months. Because as you’re no doubt aware—as all EJPs are aware—it’s not a desirable trait, which is why very few EJPs disclose on the first date. (“I grew up in Milan; I have two sisters; and I’m the type of person who’ll show up at your workplace and cause a huge scene if I think you might be fucking someone else or have ever fucked someone else.”) If you’re anything like EJPs I’ve dated and dumped, you didn’t show your boyfriend this side of yourself until long after he’d developed feelings for you, making it harder—harder by design—for him to end things.

I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess he found out his new girlfriend is an EJP before you found out your boyfriend works with a woman he used to fuck. At some point before the six-month mark, ITALIANE, you blew up at him about a waitress or someone he follows on Instagram. And at that moment, he realized he couldn’t tell you he works with a woman he used to fuck. Because now he feared—because now he knew—you would lose your EJP shit over it, because he’d seen you lose your EJP shit over far less.

The only thing more exhausting than being with an EJP is dealing with an EJP who resents you for hiding something from them—something like working with an ex—that would set them off for days or months. I get it, I get it: He kept this from you. But if the last six months (!) are proof of anything, ITALIANE, they’re proof your boyfriend was right to keep this from you. Since changing jobs wasn’t an option, and since he can’t jump in a time machine and go un-fuck this woman, what other option did he have? Given a choice between telling you and spending the next six months dealing with your bullshit or keeping his mouth shut and hoping you never found out, he quite understandably chose the path of least bullshit.

If you can’t see how your own behavior may have contributed to his omission—and if you can’t forgive him, and you can’t take, “No, I’m not fucking her now,” for an answer, and if you refuse to see this as your problem, not his—then do your boyfriend a favor, and dump him. If you don’t, and if you keep this shit up—if you keep saying you can’t trust him one minute and then complaining about him accusing you of not trusting him the next (?)—be prepared to have your ass dumped. Because there’s only so long a person, guilty of wrongdoing or not, will put up with an EJP’s bullshit.

And finally: Your boyfriend was under no obligation to disclose the current location of every girl he’d ever fucked at the start of your relationship, ITALIANE, or at any other point, for that matter. While some people can be open with their partners about their pasts, and their partners can be open with them, it’s not compulsory. And if someone wants to try to make it work with an EJP, it’s not a good idea. I don’t know why anyone would want to make it work with an EJP, ITALIANE, but there are people out there who do. Your boyfriend might be one of them. But don’t push your luck.


I’ve been with my partner for a year and a half. We have been long distance from the start, and she’s working toward moving closer to me in a more permanent way. But I’m worried about the sex, as I feel a lack of desire for her. I believe it could be my newfound awareness of “patriarchal gaze,” which I wasn’t conscious of before meeting her. I used to enjoy kink, but I no longer consider it sexy. I used to have a lot of sex with my ex-boyfriends and used to feel some conflict, but power games were a turn-on. Loving care has replaced dirty games, and I feel wrong now if I try to watch porn, and I no longer enjoy touching myself, because I cannot get off without thinking in sexist ways.

I’m feeling pretty confused. Although I love my partner in a very special and deep way, it’s quite confusing. Please advise on how to feel sexy again without being destructive.

Still Horny Deep Down Somewhere

There’s nothing wrong with objectifying someone who wants to be objectified by you, and there’s nothing wrong with being objectified by someone you want to be objectified by. (That’s what you mean by the “patriarchal gaze,” right?)

In addition to being three-dimensional human beings with wants, needs, agency and autonomy, we are also physical objects, SHDDS, and sometimes we want to be appreciated for the objects we are. (Or the objects we also are.) So long as the person you’re objectifying—so long as the person on the receiving end of your gaze—enjoys receiving that kind of attention from you, and vice-versa, there’s nothing wrong with it. To gaze at someone who desires your gaze, to touch them and play dirty games with them, isn’t inherently sexist or dehumanizing—so long as it’s consensual and mutually pleasurable, which I realize it all too often isn’t, particularly for women. But we shouldn’t let assholes (mostly men) who can make people (mostly women) feel unsafe or uncomfortable with a look ruin what isn’t just enjoyable when consensual—but affirming and at times transcendently pleasurable.

To be perfectly frank, SHDDS, I’m concerned about your relationship. If you feel so awful about your sexual desires and sexual history that you’re incapable of enjoying sex anymore—if you can’t even masturbate anymore—and those awful feelings entered your life at roughly the same time your partner did … maybe your partner is part of the problem. If you were evolving in a different direction with her sexually, if you were moving away from power games—which can be very loving—and toward something else, I wouldn’t see a problem. But you aren’t opening up to something new in this relationship, SHDDS; you’re shutting down. Even if your partner hasn’t said or done anything to make you feel ashamed of your sexual desires or history, SHDDS, I’m not sure she’s right for you. And I don’t think it would be right of you to let someone you don’t desire move across the country to be with you.

But whether you decide to stay in this relationship or not, you would benefit from speaking with a sex-positive/kink-positive therapist about your conflicted feelings.

On the Lovecast: Emily Bazelon, from Slate’s Political Gabfest: www.savagelovecast.com.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.; @FakeDanSavage on Twitter.

Borrowing Gen Z’s love for labelling everything: I’m a 46-year-old homoromantic asexual Canadian faggot. For me, that means I’d like to love and be loved by another man, but I’d hate having sex with him. To add a vexing complication, I also need some sort of power imbalance. Ideally, I would fall somewhere between being a man’s sub and being his slave. I’ve been searching for this since I came out in my early 20s. I’ve tried everything—online, bars, hobby groups, friends, hookups. Vanilla relationships, single Masters, dominant couples, sex workers. I’ve spent thousands of dollars on both men and therapy, but here I am, busted, miserable and alone. The point is that no one—and I mean absolutely no one—wants what I want. My dream dude doesn’t exist.

It’s easy to tell someone to move on, that there are other fish in the sea, etc., but sometimes your sea is a puddle, and you really are the only guppy.

I’m considering ending my life before the end of the year. I can’t shake the deep sadness, disappointment and misery that I feel—and this isn’t even touching on my current unemployment or newly chronic health issues.

What would you do if you were in my shoes? How does one switch off the built-in romantic drive?

Sought A Dom Accepting Sad Singlehood

I’m sorry you haven’t found your ideal man, SADASS, or the right dominant couple, or a vanilla guy you could love and a dominant sex worker you could see on the side. Not everyone finds their ideal mate/position/situation, despite our best efforts, which is why it’s important that we build lives for ourselves that are rich and rewarding while we look for our dream dude(s). Because then even, if we’re unhappily single—or we find ourselves unhappily single again—we would still have meaning and pleasure in our lives. And that makes it easier for us to live in the hope that, should all the planets align, it could still happen for us or happen for us again. (Please note: I’m qualifying “single” with “unhappy” here not because all single people are unhappy—which is absolutely untrue—but because this single person, SADASS, is unhappy.)

I have to assume it has happened for you once or twice, SADASS. While none of your relationships with any of the vanilla guys, single Masters, dominant couples or sex workers you’ve met along the way turned into long-term connections, there had to have been some good times and real—if not lasting—connections over the years. Instead of seeing those relationships as a string of failures because they all ended, SADASS, you should see them as a long series of successful short-term relationships. And while you may regret that none lasted for years or decades, there’s nothing about being partnered that immunizes a person against regret. If you were still with one of those vanilla guys, you might always regret not meeting a Master; if you were with a Master or a dominant couple, you might regret—from time to time—not having a more egalitarian relationship.

Although you say you are not interested in having sex, SADASS, your interests are erotically charged. If your erotic-if-not-sexual fantasies are causing you distress—if you want to switch off your built-in romantic/erotic drive—anti-depressants often lower and sometimes tank a person’s libido. For most people, that’s an unwelcome side effect, but you may find it a blessing—at least for now, SADASS, while you’re dealing with your health and employment issues. It’s an extreme move, but it’s far less extreme than the one you’ve been contemplating, so it might be worth discussing with a sex-positive, kink-positive, reality-aware therapist.

Finally, please don’t end your life. The world is a far more interesting place with you in it. And while finding a romantic partner is never the solution to our problems—it’s only the start of a whole new set of problems—I’ve heard from countless people over the years who found something close to what they were looking for in their 50s, 60s and even 70s. But it can’t happen for you if you aren’t here for it.

Crisis Services Canada maintains a 24-hour suicide-prevention hotline: 833-456-4566. In the United States, please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 800-273-8255.


I’m bisexual man who works on a military base with so many hot men. But how the hell do I even get a quick cock to suck without getting fired for coming on to the wrong guy? Or beaten up? How do I approach someone who could be interested? It’s been forever since I’ve had a guy!

Don’t tell me to try Grindr. I already did, and most of the guys on there are not my style, and the two who were blew me off. I wish I was totally straight or totally gay, because the bisexual world is really depressing!

Basically I’ve Got Unfulfilled Yearnings

Totally gay guys get blown off on Grindr and Sniffies and Recon all the time. Totally straight guys get blown off on Tinder and Farmers Only and Christian Mingle all the time.

I’m not minimizing the unique challenges bisexuals face—biphobia is real—but everyone faces rejection, BIGUY. And while some gay guys don’t wanna date bi guys, you aren’t looking for a date. You’re looking for a dick to suck.

So get back on Grindr. When you see a hot guy on the street, on the subway, or on your military base, quickly open Grindr—or Scruff or Sniffies or Recon or all of the above—and if they’re on there, too, send them a message. If they’re interested, they’ll write back. If they aren’t, they won’t. And if you’re worried a guy won’t let you suck his dick if you tell him you’re bisexual, and you don’t mind blowing guys who might be biphobic, don’t disclose your bisexuality on your profile; stick to, “Sup?” and “Looking?” when you message them.

And you know … back when men picked each other up in bars … you had to make eye contact with a lotta guys before you locked eyes with the right guy. If you made eye contact with a guy who wasn’t interested—if you weren’t his style or his type—he wouldn’t make eye contact with you again. That’s essentially what a guy is doing when he “blows you off” on Grindr: He’s taking a quick look, deciding you’re not for him, and looking away—the exact same thing you’re doing to guys who aren’t your style or type. Guys who left the bar after two guys looked away never got to suck a dick, BIGUY, so don’t give up after a couple of guys blow you off on Grindr. Just keep looking around.


I’m a 60-something straight woman. A few years ago, a longtime male friend and I, both in very unhappy relationships, did what I’d never done in my life: We cheated on our partners. We both ended our other relationships, and the resulting two years have been wonderful. My guy is smart and funny, and the sex is very, very, VERY good. We don’t live together and see each other on weekends.

Now for the problem: I think he voted for Trump. While he’s a political conservative, he’s not crazy, and he has some reasonable viewpoints that I can tolerate, even if I disagree. But not Trump. I don’t think a good person votes for Trump. Practically speaking, it doesn’t matter, because we live in solid blue Washington state, and all our electoral votes will go to Biden, but I’m not sure I can fuck someone who voted for Trump. But if I end things with him, there’s a good chance I’ll never have sex again. I don’t think there are many opportunities for 65-year-old average-looking women, even ones with healthy libidos. Thoughts?

Update: Before I could even hit send on this email, Dan, I found out that, yes, he voted for Trump. I’m sickened that this person I care for voted for Trump! Do I end it?!?

OH FUCKING HELL

Yes you do, OFH, and you tell him why: Elections have consequences. Better a trusty vibrator than an unworthy Trump voter.

This week on the Savage Lovecast, Andrew Gurza on sex with disabilities: www.savagelovecast.com

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My husband recently passed away. He was a wonderful person, and we had 12 great years together. He was also very, very organized. His death was an accident, but everything was in order. He even left a note in a sealed envelope for his lawyer to present to me. It was one last love letter, Dan. Our relationship wasn’t perfect—no relationship is—but that’s who he was. Or that’s who I thought he was.

My husband was a very good-looking man who took meticulous care of his body. We actually met in a gym at a hotel. He wasn’t conceited, which I think may be because he didn’t come into his looks until he was in his 20s, but he enjoyed the effect his appearance had on others. In addition to his last love letter and other documents, I was given a list with the passwords to my husband’s social media accounts. I made the mistake of looking at his messages on Instagram. He exchanged private images with hundreds of women and gay men all over the world. Not just photos of him shirtless—photos of him fully nude from the front and back, images of his genitals, and even video clips of him masturbating with his face clearly visible.

I knew he had exhibitionistic tendencies. Years before we met, he got in legal trouble for exposing himself in a public place. He sought help for impulse control and never did something like that again. But he always had a very high libido, much higher than mine, and he masturbated frequently; public sex remained his biggest fantasy. I didn’t judge or shame him for any of that. We jokingly called masturbation “his thang” and sex, which we had roughly once a week, “our thang,” and one time, when it seemed safe, we did manage to have sex in public. He expressed an interest in opening up our relationship years ago, but I am monogamous by nature, and he agreed to keep our relationship closed. And I believe he did: I’ve read through all his messages with these strangers, and there are no mentions of any meetings. I’ve seen dozens of messages from people who wanted to meet in person, and he always turned them down. But he never turned down a request for more photos.

Help me understand this. I can’t tell anyone else about this, and I hate sitting here feeling like my marriage was a lie.

Also, men? My husband was straight. Why was he sending photos to gay men?

Wishing Instagram Didn’t Open Window

I am so sorry for your loss, WIDOW, and I’m so sorry your grief has been complicated by what you found in your husband’s Instagram account. But you shouldn’t for a moment doubt the love of a man who wanted to make sure you got one last love letter if he should die unexpectedly. That’s not something a person would think to do for a someone they didn’t truly love.

Your husband was who you thought he was. Your marriage wasn’t a lie, and your husband wasn’t a liar, WIDOW; it’s just that your grief—like you and your husband and your marriage and anything human beings do or feel or touch—is imperfect.

So far as you know, WIDOW, your husband never cheated on you—and after reading thousands of his DMs, since your husband didn’t think you would ever see those DMs, it’s safe to say you know everything. And what you know now that you didn’t know before is that sharing pictures with strangers was one of your husband’s “thangs.”

Now I’m going to ask you to make a leap, WIDOW.

Instead of seeing what you found on Instagram as evidence of your husband’s unfaithfulness, WIDOW, try to see it as something that made it possible for a man like your husband to remain faithful. Think of those DMs like a pressure-release valve. On Instagram, your husband could expose himself to strangers who wanted to see him naked—avoiding both consent violations and legal trouble—without exposing himself to the temptations of face-to-face encounters, WIDOW, temptations that might’ve led him to violate the monogamous commitment he made to you and, like all people who make monogamous commitments, sometimes struggled to keep.

One person can’t be all things to another person sexually. People can ask for monogamous commitments, of course, and we all have a right to expect consideration and compassion from our partners—and not having the needs we can’t meet or the ways we fall short thrown in our faces is one way our partners demonstrate consideration and compassion. Your husband needed more attention than any one person could ever provide. He didn’t rub that in your face. He cut an ethical corner by swapping DMs with strangers to meet a need you couldn’t—but if getting that need met, in the way he did, made it possible for him to stay in your marriage and stay faithful to you, perhaps you benefited, too. And while your husband should’ve asked for your permission, if you had found his DMs while he was alive, WIDOW, he would no doubt ask for your forgiveness. Think of the years he gave you and the love he showed you, and ask yourself if you could give him the forgiveness he would be asking for if he could. Then give him—give yourself—that gift.

As for those pictures sent to men: Your husband’s willingness to accept attention from gay men is another sign he was one of the good guys. Straight guys who are secure in their sexuality are much more willing to accept compliments from gay men these days—some straight guys, like your husband, even seek them out.

I am, again, so very sorry for your loss.


I live in North Carolina. One of our two senators, Thom Tillis, is a Republican who tested positive for COVID-19 after cavorting with the president at the White House. But when I opened the local paper, lo and behold, the top story wasn’t the ill Tillis, but the admission by his Democratic opponent in the senatorial race—Cal Cunningham—that Cunningham had, in fact, exchanged “sexts” with a woman who is not his wife. I braced for dick pics or kink revelations or worse when I clicked through to the website that broke the story. At the very least, I expected explicit references to sex. But nope! We’re being told to clutch our pearls—and to vote for Tillis—over some text G-rated messages about “lots of kissing” and a vague wish to spend a night together. I guess these laughably tame exchanges round up to salacious, because both parties are married to other people. It would be funny if it weren’t so sad and if it wasn’t threatening the Democrats’ efforts to retake the Senate.

Voter In North Carolina Enraged

So the worry here is that the people of North Carolina are going to vote for a U.S. senator who can’t open his mouth without Donald Trump’s nutsack falling out—Thom Tillis—over Cal Cunningham, because Cunningham sent a few not-that-dirty text messages to a woman who isn’t his wife. Sigh.

Tillis has spent the last four years tongue-bathing the balls of a man who has cheated on every wife he’s ever had—a man who has also been credibly accused of sexual assault by two dozen women. By association and proximity, Tillis has a far more scandalous record. But whoever wins the Senate election in North Carolina, there’s not enough mouth wash in the world to get the stench of Trump’s taint off Tillis’ breath.


I sent you a letter yesterday. Today, I told my husband I want a divorce. So I didn’t need any advice from you after all. Once I laid it out in my letter to you, and I thought about the last three years and the amount of struggling with this I have gone through, I realized that it was SO. DAMN. OBVIOUS. There was no question. There was only an answer. Divorce. It has been horrible the last couple days, but things are starting to feel a bit better. The worst part is the intense pain that I have caused him. He loves me so much, and it is painful to tell him that I do not love him in the same way. But I am holding tight to my firm belief that in a few years, he will understand that I did this out of love—for him and for me.

Thank you. Even though you did not need to respond, just being there to write to helped.

Writing Was Enough

I’m happy it helped just to write the letter, WWE. I read your letter, and I agree: You’re doing the right thing for yourself and your husband. Best of luck to you both.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.; @FakeDanSavage on Twitter; www.savagelovecast.com.

I was dumped in August by a guy I was seeing for 10 months. He told me that he wants to work on himself and “needs to be selfish” right now. Since then, we have spoken every day, shared numerous dinners and gone on hikes. Our friendship is killing me. With him, I hold it together. Away from him, I cry all the time. I’ve started seeing a therapist, and I’m on medication. I’m trying to be mature about the breakup and match his level of “coolness,” but it’s destroying me. My friends tell me that I should stay away from him; allow some time to pass; and reassess. But the thought of losing him is almost as bad as the thought of keeping him in my life.

I should also mention that I ended a 10-year relationship for the opportunity to date him.

Simply Heartbroken And Talking To Ex Really Extending Depression

“Hey, Dan, what I’m doing is making me miserable—should I stop?”

Yes, SHATTERED, you should stop. Your friends are giving you excellent advice: Stay away from this guy for at least a year—don’t talk on the phone (with him); don’t share meals (with him); don’t go on hikes (with him)—and then see how you feel after you’ve talked, shared meals and gone on hikes with other people. It’s always nice when exes are friends, MTP, but it’s not an easy pivot, and it can’t be executed instantly. And the transition to friendship is always much harder for the person who was dumped—because of course it is—and it’s even harder when a selfish dumper accepts or demands the kind of attention and emotional support from the dumpee to which the dumper is no longer entitled.

Oh, and if you ended a 10-year relationship to date someone—if you ended it for a romantic prospect, not a romantic certainty (and there’s no such thing as a romantic certainty)—then that 10-year relationship needed to end. If your ex-boyfriend implored you to end that 10-year relationship, and 10 months later dumped you to “work on himself,” and then did everything in his power to keep you all to himself even after dumping you, that “friendship” needs to end too. At least for the time being.


My name is a variation on “John Smith.” I met a woman, and she liked me, but then she did a cheapo background check on me and found a “John Smith” who had committed felonies—including assaulting a high school principal—and ended things with me. I am not that “John Smith,” and I am innocent of these crimes! She had every reason to trust me; we met at my house, and she viewed the premises without incident. What do I do?

Not That Guy

You had this woman over to your house, NTG, and she viewed the premises without incident. OK … so you didn’t rape or kill her when she dropped in, and that speaks well to the absolute bare fucking minimum of your character. But it doesn’t obligate her to keep seeing you. If you can prove you’re not John Smith, High School Principal Assaulter, and she doesn’t care, NTG, then there’s some other reason doesn’t want to see you again. (Was there a MAGA hat on the premises?) But whatever her real reason is/real reasons are, you’ve been given a “no.” And like everyone else, NTG, you have to take “no” for an answer, even when it feels unfair or arbitrary.


I’ve been with my boyfriend for almost five years, and everything is amazing, except that he sees his ex-girlfriend when I’m not around. He says she wants to meet me, but he never wants to meet up with her when I’m with him. Their “dates” are becoming more frequent. She’s a single mom, and he has expressed to me that he wants to be in her son’s life.

My feelings of discomfort are escalating, and I’m having trouble believing him when he says he wants me to meet her. When I bring this up, he gets angry and says I’m being too emotional. Am I being a crazy jealous girlfriend? I need some help. I want to be a better person. Should I reach out to his ex-girlfriend directly, since my boyfriend refuses to make it happen? Or do I bail on the relationship? I feel that uncomfortable.

Ex-Girlfriend Looms Over Everything

Bail.


I’m in my early 30s, and I’ve been struggling to make new friends. A lot of the people in my extended social circle are polyamorous/queer, and while I identify as queer, I’m in a monogamish relationship that isn’t poly. Lately, I have been finding that I have been getting approached a lot by people who want a romantic/sexual connection. It seems like the only people who want me around lately want in my pants, and they assume because I’m queer that I’m also poly—without asking directly. So people ask me if I want to “hangout,” and I’m often unsure if they mean “hangout” in a date context or a friend context. I’ve ended up on dates I didn’t know I was going on!

My biggest issue is that I don’t understand why people want to date/fuck me, but don’t want to be my friend. I’m pretty average-looking, and I am not overly flirty. So why is this happening?

Noodling On This Problem Over Lattes, Yeah?

There’s nothing stopping you from asking—asking directly—for a little clarity: “Hangout? I’d love to! But do you mean ‘hangout’ as in ‘spend time together as friends,’ or ‘hangout’ as in ‘let’s-go-on-a-date’? I ask, because I’ve wound up on a couple of dates that I didn’t know were dates, and it was awkward.”

As for why this is happening … well, either the poly people in your social circle assume—incorrectly—that all queer people are poly, or you’re much more attractive than you’re giving yourself credit for, NOTPOLY, or some combo of both.


I’m a gay man who, due to extensive BDSM play, has developed very prominent nipples. They’re always erect and very visible through my clothing unless I wear outrageous patterns or tape them down. Yes, I’m somewhat embarrassed by them. I don’t have gynecomastia (moobs)—just really, really, really noticeable nipples. While they are a definite boon between the sheets, they’re a bane on the streets, because I’m very self-conscious about them.

Do people notice this sort of thing on men? Is their reaction negative? Am I being ridiculed behind my back? Mind you, folks universally treat me with kindness and respect, probably because that’s how I approach everyone else, but a little voice in my head keeps telling me there’s this shameful part of my body that’s being made fun of by everyone. Well, everyone except the guys who helped get me to this point. Your thoughts?

Tortured In Tormenting Situations

Only a small percentage of the people you meet will notice your nipples, TITS, and the thought processes for 99.9 percent of the people who do will go something like this: “Big nips. Eh, whatever.” The noticers will immediately file this useless-to-them information about your tits away and never give it/them another thought. (Unless you’re Andrew Cuomo.)

I think you’re self-conscious about your tits because you know why they’re so prominent—extensive and, I assume, highly enjoyable BDSM play, TITS. And you worry other people—straight people, vanilla people, judgy gays—will take one look and realize you’re a kinky motherfucker. But most people won’t make that leap, and the ones who do are either kinky themselves, or if not, they aren’t going to dwell on your tits or hold them against you.

Stop kink-shaming yourself. You earned those tits—you suffered for them—and you should be proud of them!

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.; @FakeDanSavage on Twitter; www.savagelovecast.com.

I’m a 30-something gay man married to a 30-something gay man. For almost two years, we’ve been seeing another pair of married gay men around our age. They were our first experience with any sexual or romantic interaction outside of our relationship.

The first six months were hot and heavy. We were together constantly and having sex almost every night. After the “honeymoon phase” ended, one member of the other couple (“Roger”) wanted to slow things down. Roger and I had some conflict over this, and I have to admit that I showed a pretty bad side of myself while grappling with insecurity. Eventually, Roger pulled me aside to talk one-on-one. He wanted us to be “friends who have sex sometimes.”

Then, right after the COVID-19 lockdown started, Roger and I had another heart-to-heart on my birthday. After many drinks and a lot of making out, we both said we loved each other. Roger walked it back the next day. “I don’t know what you thought you heard last night,” he basically said, “but I’m not in love with you.”

I was devastated. This isn’t what I want. I am in love with Roger and his husband. I don’t want to be “friends who have sex sometimes.” My husband is OK with just being friends with Roger and his husband, especially since their large friend group has adopted us, and he worries we’ll lose all these new friends if I end our friendship with Roger and his husband. I would really like to talk this out with Roger, but I’m not sure I can get through that conversation without DTMFAing him.

I mean, which was it? Were we a fun sexy fling, and nothing about the last two years mattered? Or was he in love with me but decided the conflict and complication of this relationship wasn’t worth it? Which was it?

Trouble In The Quad

Roger doesn’t want what you want.

That sucks, and I’m sorry. But we’ve all been there. Falling for someone who doesn’t feel as strongly for us as we do for them, whether we’re dating as couples or singles, is always painful. But that pain is an unavoidable risk. And while it may seem unfair that you can only have Roger in your life on his terms, that’s the reality. That’s everyone’s reality, TITQ, because loving someone doesn’t obligate that person to love us back, or love us in the same way that we love them, or want the same things we want. But Roger can’t impose his terms on you. If being “just friends” feels like an insulting consolation prize after what the last two years has meant to you, if that’s not good enough, then Roger doesn’t get to be in your life. You can have terms, too.

Backing up for a second: You seem to believe that if the relationship mattered—if Roger and his husband loved you and your husband, and vice-versa—then it wouldn’t have ended. That’s false. Something can matter and still end. Something can also matter more to one person than it did to another person. (Or couple.) You don’t have to dismiss or minimize what the four of you had because Roger has decided, for whatever reason, that being in a quad with you isn’t what he wants.

And if you’re hoping to get this quad back together … and it’s entirely up to Roger … you’re going about it wrong. If Roger got cold feet due to the “conflict and complication” of being in a poly relationship, TITQ, your best move is to avoid conflict and complication. If you think Roger told the truth on your birthday and lied to you the next day, then you need to demonstrate the kind of emotional maturity that makes you a more-attractive partner to a person like Roger. And provoking a confrontation with Roger—staging a scene where you’re likely to dump a guy who has already dumped you—will have the opposite effect. It will only confirm for Roger the decision he has already made.

Your best bet—your best strategy—is to accept Roger’s offer of friendship and refrain from blowing up at him. You should also tell him, just once and very calmly, that you and your husband would be open to getting back together with him and his husband. Best-case scenario, the quad gets back together. Worst-case scenario, you have some great memories, a whole bunch of great new friends, and maybe, once in a while, a hot foursome with Roger and his husband.

Two last things …

I would love to see video of you showing the “bad side” of yourself to Roger. People tend to minimize their own shitty behavior—all people do it, myself included. If you’re prone to blowing up when you don’t get what you want, well, it’s understandable that someone who dislikes conflict and complication would start getting cold feet once the honeymoon phase ended. I’m not suggesting you’re toxic or unbearable‚ TITQ, only that different people have different tolerance levels for romantic conflict. But if what you want is for Roger to reconsider the decision he’s made, well, you might also wanna let him know you’re working on your approach to conflict. If you don’t want Roger to regret getting the quad back together and then quickly end things again, TITQ—or for the next Roger or Rogers who come into your life to head for the hills after the honeymoon phases end—you should talk with someone who can give you the tools to better handle conflict.

And finally, TITQ, the other two men in this quad feel strangely inert—more like houseplants than husbands. I mean, you have nothing to say about how Roger’s husband feels, and very little to say about how yours does. Is Roger’s husband interested in keeping the quad together? Besides not wanting to lose some new friends, does your husband give two shits? Because even if Roger decides he wants back in, TITQ, and that’s a big if, your revived quad won’t last long if your houseplants—sorry, your husbands—aren’t just as invested as you are.


The man I’m seeing is the first person I ever opened up to about my bisexuality. Over our first year together, we had several threesomes, but we both became uncomfortable with them, and one day, he told me he could not have that kind of sex with a woman he cares about. We quarantined together, and he felt COVID-19 had forced us to rush things. We decided to spend less time together to focus on our careers, which had both taken a hit.

Now we only see each other every two weeks or so. I thought it could be fun to reconnect and do some more threesomes. He agreed but asked me to handle things. I found us some amazing girls—but as in the past, our threesomes led to problems. I feel threatened; he feels jealous. We fight; I cry; he gets angry and acts like an asshole. I’m very insecure, depressed, and have spent years in therapy. The threesomes feel like too much, but we have great sex when we talk about other women.

Is there any way we can make this work?

Lost Into My Emotions

I feel really sorry for the women you two are having threesomes with. Even if you’re doing your very special guest stars the courtesy of waiting until they leave to break down in tears, LIME, and even if your boyfriend is polite enough to wait until they’re gone before acting like an asshole, these women are most likely picking up on the tension and may feel conflicted about the sex after they go. If you’re having these meltdowns and blowups in front of these women, LIME, they definitely leave feeling terrible and may worry they did something wrong when it’s you two who are doing something wrong—continuing to have threesomes despite knowing they never end well.

While I don’t think a woman should waste her time (or pussy) on a man who tells her he can’t have “that kind of sex,” i.e., sex she enjoys, with a woman he cares about, I can understand why you might want to keep seeing this guy. (COVID-19 is making it hard to find new partners.) But you should stop doing the thing that doesn’t work—having threesomes—and do the thing that does work instead: talking dirty to each other about other women. And if you still want to get with women, LIME, do it solo. He doesn’t need to be there for you to enjoy an amazing girl.

www.savagelovecast.com; This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.; @FakeDanSavage on Twitter.

Married guy here. I’m 33; the wife is 31. Our fifth anniversary is next month, but we’ve been together for almost eight years. We’ve recently both come out to each other as bi. She tried to tell me a long time ago, whereas I came to the realization only recently. We’re both interested in new sexual encounters, and this weekend, we met up with a male escort. It was my first sexual experience with a man, and the first sexual encounter between my wife and another man in eight years … and we found it lacking. It was too short and too impersonal.

Is this how it usually goes with escorts? Should we have been more upfront with our interests ahead of time? We don’t want to keep spending the money if we’re not getting the experience we want. We need to stay fairly discreet for most of these encounters due to our careers. Appreciate any input.

Oh, and a shoutout to my amazing wife for going from learning I’m bi to fucking another dude with me three months later!

Basking In Confusion Over Underwhelming, Pitifully Lackluster Experience

Some sex workers love their jobs; some don’t. Some sex workers are good at their jobs; some aren’t. Sometimes a sex worker doesn’t click with a particular client for some ephemeral, hard-to-define reason; sometimes a client gives off a bad vibe—or a bad odor—and the sex worker bails or hurries things along, not because they’re a shitty sex worker, BICOUPLE, but because their client is shitty or smells shitty.

But here’s the thing, BICOUPLE: No sex worker can read minds. You tell me you’re wondering if you should’ve been “more upfront with (your) interests ahead of time.” If you left something important out when you made the booking, well, that could’ve been the problem. No sex worker likes having things sprung on them. A sex worker who doesn’t do kink is going to feel very uncomfortable if there’s a bunch of bondage gear laid out when they arrive; even a sex worker who does kink is going to feel uncomfortable if kink wasn’t discussed in advance. Similarly, BICOUPLE, if you didn’t explain to your sex worker that there were two of you, your sex worker might’ve felt uncomfortable when they arrived.

If you weren’t clear about your wants, and your sex worker didn’t ask or you couldn’t articulate them after he asked, you put your sex worker in the position of having to guess. And your sex worker may have guessed wrong; some clients prefer sex that’s athletic, impersonal or aggressive. And if your sex worker had a bad experience with a husband who got upset when his wife seemed a little too into him, he may have erred on the side of maintaining some emotional distance even as you got physically close.

If what you wanted—if what you were most interested in—was a more intimate and connected experience, then you weren’t just expecting sexual labor from the sex worker you hired, BICOUPLE, but his emotional labor, too. While affection and intimacy can certainly be faked, we don’t typically expect a strong emotional connection when we’re hooking up with a stranger. Being sexually intimate can build that connection, BICOUPLE, but it can take time and a few meetings to get there.

To avoid winding up in bed with another sex worker you don’t click with, I would advise you to take the time—and spend the money—to make a real connection. By which I mean: Go on a date. Find a sex worker you’re interested in, and make a date—for dinner. Pay them for their time; pay for their meal; and if you click, BICOUPLE, if you feel like you could connect, book them for a sex date.


Straight male here, divorced four years ago, just entering my 50s. I recently expanded my dating-app parameters to see everyone in my area. I wanted to check out the competition and possibly give myself a little ego boost. I have a gay male friend who is in his 40s. Mr. Forties has a boyfriend of two years who is in his 20s. They are great together—they vacation together; they quarantined together; Mr. Twenties and Mr. Forties worked on redecorating a home together, etc.

The problem is I spotted Mr. Forties on several dating apps. It would have been perfectly acceptable for him to say “none of your business” when I asked him why. Instead, he told me they were old profiles, implying they pre-dated Mr. Twenties. He lists pets on his profiles that he adopted a few months ago. I have a sore spot about this behavior, because my ex-wife started “auditioning” my replacement before we filed divorce papers. I really don’t like being lied to.

What do I do? Confront Mr. Forties? Mind my own business and hope Mr. Forties doesn’t crush Mr. Twenties by cheating? Help!

Fumbled Into Fraught Terrain Involving Expanded Search

Maybe Mr. Forties and Mr. Twenties have an open relationship. Maybe they have a closed relationship but both regard flirting on dating apps as harmless. Maybe Mr. Forties was charged with finding a very special guest star for a threesome. Or maybe Mr. Forties has profiles on dating apps for the exact same reason you expanded the parameters on your profiles, FIFTIES: for the ego boost.

If it was any of the above—if there was an innocent explanation—why did Mr. Forties go with, “Those were old profiles,” instead of, “We sometimes have threesomes”? Well, in my experience, FIFTIES, some straight people have a hard time wrapping their heads around the kind of non-monogamy practiced by most gay male couples. Hell, some closed-minded gay people have a hard time with it. I can imagine a scenario where Mr. Forties was honest with people in the past and got a bad reaction, and consequently no longer feels safe—much less obligated—to share the details of his sex life with straight or gay friends. So he gave you the answer a lot of straight people and some gay people prefer to hear when they ask pointed questions of partnered friends they assumed to be monogamous: “Of course I’m not sleeping around! Those were old profiles! My monogamous boyfriend would never want me to shove my monogamous dick down his throat while some other dude non-monogamously rearranges his guts! Heavens! We’re far too busy redecorating our lovely home to arrange threesomes! Which we’re totally not interested in having!”

Look, FIFTIES, you put a question to Mr. Forties that he wasn’t obligated to answer at all, much less answer truthfully. So what do you do now? What you should’ve done when you first stumbled over Mr. Forties’ dating profiles: You do nothing. You drop it. The issue you shouldn’t have brought it up in the first place? You don’t bring it up again. Even if Mr. Forties is auditioning replacements for Mr. Twenties—even if he lied to you for a selfish, self-serving reason—it’s still none of your business.


My boyfriend and I first heard the terms “sexual monogamy” and “social monogamy” on your podcast. They describe us: not sexually monogamous, but we present that way socially, and most people in our lives assume we are. Including my mother. We’re both from very Republican families that struggled to accept us. My attitude is that if my brothers don’t have to tell our parents about their kinks, I don’t have to tell them about my threesomes. (Both of my older brothers have confided in me about their kinks, and I wish they hadn’t.) But it got back to me via my sister that my Trump-worshipping, Obama-despising mother only accepts me and my boyfriend because we are “good” gays. Good because we’re monogamous, like good straight people, and not promiscuous, like bad gay people.

Now I feel like I should say something. But what?

They Really Underestimate My Proclivities

“Good people can be ‘promiscuous,’ Mom, and awful people can be monogamous. Take Donald Trump. That asshole has been married three times and cheated on every one of his wives. Barack Obama, whom you despise, has been married once and has never been caught cheating. Which means Obama either doesn’t cheat, or like everything else he’s ever done—from being someone’s husband to being our president—he’s better at it than Donald Trump.”

On the Savage Lovecast, learn a thing or two from power sub Lina Dune: www.savagelovecast.com.

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I’m a straight man who’s been dating a woman for not quite four months. In the beginning, things were light—but things started to get heavy quickly.

Two weeks in, she revealed her very serious abandonment issues and then began asking me whether I really loved her, demanding reassurance that I wasn’t going anywhere and that she wouldn’t be “just a single chapter” in my life. After a month, I met her 7-year-old son, her parents and her ex. Then we had a pregnancy scare. She told me that if she were pregnant, she would keep it, because then I would have to stay. That alarmed me. I voiced that we’d been dating for very a short time, and this wasn’t a good time for either of us to have a child. She wasn’t pregnant, luckily. Even before this incident, my body had started to manifest signs of anxiety—upset stomach, sleepless nights, loss of appetite, etc. So, I summoned up all of my courage (conversations like this are extremely difficult for me) and told her that I couldn’t do this anymore. She started to cry and begged me to give her a second chance. I wound up spending the rest of the weekend at her place and agreed to stay in the relationship. But I didn’t feel good about it. When I finally got back to my place, I felt anxious, confused, hollow and hopeless. I tried to end things again after speaking to my therapist, but she won’t take no for an answer and constantly brings up the promises I made her about really loving her.

I hate this, and I feel terrible for her son. Any thoughts on how to dismantle this thing? Or do I just need to run?

Passionate Reassurances Extracted So Soon Undoes Relationship Exit

As I explained to a reader in a similar situation: “We need someone’s consent before we kiss them, suck them, fuck them, spank them, spoon them, marry them, collar them, etc. But we do not need someone’s consent to leave them. Breakups are the only aspect of our romantic lives where the other person’s consent is irrelevant. The other person’s pain is relevant, of course, and we should be as compassionate and considerate as possible when ending a relationship. (Unless we’re talking about dumping an abuser, in which case safety and self-care are all that matters.) But we don’t need someone’s consent to dump them.”

Voice that it’s over, PRESSURE, and then refuse to get drawn into negotiations about whether it’s over. It’s over. If she needs to cry on someone’s shoulder, she’ll need to call a friend. And if she brings up the promises you made after she “revealed” her abandonment issues weeks into this relationship, apologize for not being strong enough to resist her obvious—if possibly subconscious—efforts to manipulate you. She shouldn’t have asked you to swear your undying love after you’d known each other for such a short time, and you shouldn’t have made the promises you did. You failed her and yourself by not telling her it was too soon for that shit—too soon to say “I love you,” too soon to know whether she would be a chapter in your life, too soon to meet her son (!), her parents (!!) and her ex (!!!).

Demands for premature reassurances of everlasting love, like all demands for premature commitments, are intended to make exiting the relationship more difficult—not for the person making the demands, of course; they’re always free to go. They make it more difficult for the person those demands are being made of. While I’m not calling your girlfriend an abuser, demands for premature commitments are often red flags for abuse; being asked to make a premature commitment after a few weeks or months—by moving in together or adopting a dog or (God forbid) getting married—makes it infinitely harder for a person to leave once the mask slips, and they see the abuser lurking behind it. Again, I don’t think your girlfriend is an abuser, but she weaponized her insecurities (“It’s nice to meet you; now let me tell you about my abandonment issues!”) to extract what amounts to a premature commitment from you. And she involved her son in that effort, which is really unconscionable. While that’s on her, PRESSURE, not you, you should’ve refused to meet her son so quickly and seen her desire to introduce you to him as a red flag.

Learn the lessons, PRESSURE: When someone you’ve only recently started dating says, “Will you love me forever?” the correct answer is never, “Of course I will!” The correct answer is always, “I think you’re a wonderful person, and I want to keep seeing you, but we can’t know—at this stage—what the future will bring.” If they respond by saying, “You know what? You’re right,” keep seeing them. If they respond by melting down and bringing up their abandonment issues, well, they’ve just demonstrated that they aren’t someone you would want a future with.

And finally, I’m #TeamAmanza on the issue of meeting a new partner’s children from a previous relationship. You should be seeing someone for at least six months to a year—you should be well out of the honeymoon phase, if not quite into the farting-in-front-of-each-other phase—before being introduced to your new partner’s kid(s).


I’m a 32-year-old straight man dating a 31-year-old straight woman. We’ve been seeing each other for eight months and became “Facebook official” (if that’s still a thing) in June. We are both in our first serious relationship after being divorced from relatively long marriages. (Me: eight years, two kids. Her: 10 years, no kids.) My question is: When does suspicion—suspicion of cheating—become something you should bring up? I tend to spill everything that’s going on in my life, which she says she appreciates but isn’t used to doing. She’s a very independent person, which I’ve never experienced before. It’s refreshing to know that my partner has her own friends, but there are moments when I get stonewalled. Sometimes I get vague answers or no answers about where she is or who she’s with. She often tells me she “accidentally” turned off her notifications. Sometimes she will say she’s staying in, and then I later find out that she went out.

Maybe I’m taking things way too seriously, considering the amount of time we’ve been together, but I feel I have to take things seriously since kids are involved.

The Absent Girlfriend

The uncharitable read: Your hunch is correct, and your new girlfriend is being cagey about where she’s going and who she’s with, because she’s cheating on you.

The charitable read: Your new girlfriend is 31 years old; she was married for 10 years; and you’ve been dating for eight months. Math has never been my strong suit, but assuming her marriage didn’t end five minutes before you met, TAG, your girlfriend married very young. Which means she spent her entire adult life—most or all of her 20s and possibly a chunk of her teens—having to answer to a spouse. She only recently begun to experience the kind of autonomy most of us get to enjoy before we marry and settle down (if we marry and settle down), TAG, and she may be reluctant to surrender that autonomy so shortly after achieving it.

She may also have different ideas about what being “Facebook official” means. Does that mean you’re monogamous? If it does, does she define monogamy the same way you do? Some other questions: Was going “Facebook official” your idea or her idea? Did you ask for a premature commitment? You’re only eight months in—is it possible you involved your kids too soon?

You obviously need to have a conversation with your girlfriend—if you can get her on the phone—about your expectations and definitions. If you expect her to let you know where she is at all times and who’s she’s with, TAG, make that clear. But if that is what you expect, well, here’s hoping she dumps you. Because even if you lived together, even if you were married, even if she wanted to spend the rest of her life with you, your girlfriend would still be entitled to a little privacy and her autonomy.

This week on the Lovecast, America’s favorite mortician: Caitlin Doughty! Find it at www.savagelovecast.com.

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